Your Discussion Point For The Afternoon

[coalescent]

"There's a Reason I'm not Dating a Nerd":

I later pondered and realized that what pissed me off was the notion that, because I’m female, I need to prove to men that I can join their exclusive club. And once that proof is established, I’m still not really allowed into their clubhouse. In the same way that so many nerds consider jocks to be practically another species, well, women are, too. We are Other. We’re confusing and mystifying. And it doesn’t matter if we like the same things, if we read the same things, if we discuss the same things. ‘Female’ is ‘Other’. But a female who is into those same things is put into yet another classification – as both female and nerd (especially if you’re attractive) you’re now a fetish. You’re someone who can share the joy of videogames and comics and science fiction, so he doesn’t have to alter his interests to impress you – and on top of that, you might have sex with him. You’re not just a girl, you’re a dream girl.

I used to be pretty pleased with that. I grew up awkward (as many nerds do) and when I first met a group of male nerds who treated me as Queen Nerd, it was a heady, thrilling feeling. But as I grew more comfortable and confident with myself, it started to feel creepier. I don’t like being someone’s concept, I like being a person. And Nerd Girl is not the same as Person.

Comments

[rparvaaz.livejournal.com]

First, it is a geeralisation.
Second, it is somewhat overstated.
THird, it is a bit confused [or at least the bit you've quoted is].

Having said that there seems to be truth in what she says about objectification, and manifestations thereof, in 'nerd' circles. And I don't see it as a big deal either. *shrug*

Every group has those who are not terribly good at empathy and commuication.

[kelyantar.livejournal.com]

Quite honestly, I selfishly enjoy that dynamic because it works to my advantage...but I'm not dating a "nerd" either (though he has nerd sympathies).

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

Ah: a geek liaison? (One of my favourite internet quiz results, I have to admit.)

[kelyantar.livejournal.com]

Hehe! Yes, probably.

I came out a nerd in that quiz...was quite insulted!

[despotliz.livejournal.com]

Some nerds have no social skills, film at 11. Man meets attractive woman who shares his interests and is excited by this, also film at 11.

[wg.livejournal.com]

Surely "There's a reason I'm not dating an idiot without social skills". Oh dear.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

Somewhere in the back of my brain there's a niggle about the way that true nerds tend to apply pragmatism to relationships, and how that does or doesn't interact with the Nerd Girl/Person problem (since, as rparvaaz says, I think there's at least some truth to the generalisation). But it won't resolve into an actual thought.

[grahamsleight.livejournal.com]

Trying to translate this into the world of Queer Nerds, if there is such a thing, makes my brain hurt.

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

But surely having being a baseball nerd (which her boyfriend is)is just as good/bad? I know that a pretty girl who likes football and knows a bit about it will be quizzed for her credentials - but then so would a man!

[wg.livejournal.com]

There is some truth in there, as you say, but the piece kind of reads 'I don't date people who irritate me' which would seem to be fairly obvious, whoever those people might be.

I did have something of an urge to rebut some of it, but it would just come down to 'the geeks I hang out with aren't like that', which isn't much more useful in its scope that what she has said.

[ex-susumu64.livejournal.com]

Oh man, the sarcasm channel needs multi-start.

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

Once I realized which post the quote above was responding to, I had a little more sympathy for it; but it's still fighting dehumanizing generalizations with dehumanizing generalizations, and I'll pass.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

I've pretty much always dated, dallied with, and been attracted to, female geeks of one variety or another. But its not because I fetishise them, its because thats who my friends are, and thats who I tend to spend leisure time with etc.
Never quite understood what so wrong with finding a partner from among those you already know and like, myself.

[kelyantar.livejournal.com]

What do you mean, apply pragmatism? Like, "Here be sex toy"?

[grahamsleight.livejournal.com]

Yes. The quotation could be rephrased as: "There's a thoughtful way to do things and an unthoughtful way to do things. The thoughtful way is better." As Liz says, Film at 11.

[fba.livejournal.com]

I have heard IT as a profession described as '21st century hair dressing' on a number of occassions so Queer Nerds certainly exist (Vince Tyler in QaF is just as much an archetype as Stuart). I'm not sure it has much effect on 'dating' though...

[grahamsleight.livejournal.com]

I know they exist as individuals; I just don't think there's a settled "type" to the extent that there is with straight nerds.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Ach, she's not being objectified as a Queen Nerd, she's just been caught up in Male Conversation (I use the capitals to indicate type, not actual gender assignment).

Female Conversation goes, Stroke, Reassurance, Admire, Undercut until a central person is established. It's mostly emotional grooming/

Male Conversation goes, Exchange of Information, More Information, The One with the Most Information/shiniest toy wins and then they all get on with sharing a drink.

Nerds tend to MC, so do Baseball fans. but the Nerds are assuming she understands the rules and so are shuffling the status pack, whereas her boyfriend doesn't think she's worth playing with.

I don't necessarily think she's wrong not wanting to play status games in a relationship, but I think her diagnosis--that they were trying to catch her out--is wrong.

[applez.livejournal.com]

I don’t like being someone’s concept, I like being a person. And Nerd Girl is not the same as Person.

Erm...and this differs how from any host of identities people try on and keep, or are forced to keep?

Really, Nerd Girl is as reductionist and dehumanising as Jock or Beauty Queen.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

It's nice that you believe in your own existence.

[grahamsleight.livejournal.com]

You're going to the special hell. Which is the one without decent interior decoration or quiches in the oven.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

*snort* No, not quite. :) First of all, I should probably have said "try to apply". Second, all of this is a bit tongue-in-cheek. Third, and I'm going to try to pick my words very carefully here, what I was thinking of was that (I perceive) nerds tend not to buy into the idea of relationship-as-game. (See: The Rules, et al.) Whereas in The Real World (tm), relationship-as-game seems to be horribly prevalent.

I'm sure veggiesu will be along in a minute to say "oh, that's not a nerd thing, that's just an adult functioning relationship" -- to which I say sort of, in that I think immaturity in nerd relationships manifests in different forms. (e.g. as variations of the GSFs.)

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

'the geeks I hang out with aren't like that',

But of course. You get a better class of geek around these parts.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

But apparently it has Nathan Fillion!

... wait a minute.

[tacithydra.livejournal.com]

re: Male Conversation

I agree with you in general, but reading her entire post, the geek boy reaction at the bookstore seems a little strong even for that - "Name three robins!" I mean, really?

Yeah, when you first meet someone who claims ingroup status there's some testing, but even amongst geek/nerd clans I've always found it to be a little more subtle than that.

Although taking just that one guy as a sample of all geekdom is painting with a broad brush, I'll admit.

But there's a dynamic difference between people peacocking when they first meet ("Look at my shininess!") and one of them declaring themselves arbiters of ingroupness.