Tooth and Claw

[coalescent]

• Far from great, but at least the pacing and plotting were basically competent, unlike last week.


• Thumbs up for Pauline Collins.


• Thumbs up for (what I'm assuming is deliberate) characterisation of the Doctor and Rose as getting complacent. The way this Doctor is fascinated with the strange and incredible, to the point of very nearly being oblivious that he's staring at a werewolf which will kill dozens of people if not stopped, was nicely handled.


• In fact, it's particularly good because the Doctor is our avatar. RTD's much-vaunted gift for dialogue was a bit absent (the 'not amused' gag was deeply tedious), but he was still good at the sensawunda stuff--Queen Victoria's monologue about the need for consolation, the initial scene with the 'telescope'--and then started to subvert it.


• On a purely propaganda level, I can't object too strongly to an episode which argues that books are the best weapons.


• RTD really wants to do a full-on steampunk episode, doesn't he?

Comments

[brisingamen.livejournal.com]

RTD really wants to do a full-on steampunk episode, doesn't he?

Precisely what I said to PK last night.

It was a very annoying episode in so many ways. RTD cannot pace an episode to save his life, throws away so much good stuff so casually (it's wanton the way he discards things other people could make episodes out of; such profligacy is not clever, it smacks of ... oh, a kind of complacency of its own, I think, a 'don't worry, another great idea will be along in a minute' attitude).

However, I agree that he is good at the sensawunda ... if he could only apply some discipline to what he does with it. And I liked the books line too, but then, you knew I would. However ...

[iainjclark.livejournal.com]

I thought the pacing this week was fine. Last week, on the other hand...

[wychwood]

RTD really wants to do a full-on steampunk episode, doesn't he?

Yeah, I thought exactly that :)

[hfnuala.livejournal.com]

I *hated* the 'we are not amused' bit - I know I have to accept a certain amount of jokes aimed at the 8 year olds but that was just irritating. I did like Rose trying to do a Scottish accent, though.

[secritcrush.livejournal.com]

I know I have to accept a certain amount of jokes aimed at the 8 year olds

Further proof that I am eight.

[bohemiancoast.livejournal.com]

Trust me, that one went right over the eight-year-olds heads unless they were extraordinary. I loved Rose's rubbish accent, and the way the Doctor forgot his when he got excited, and both of those felt like pretty cheap jokes.

[andrewducker]

Agreed. Better than last week, but still not great.

Twas nice to see Rab from The Book Group doing something else.

I want to know why on earth Scottish monks were doing martial arts and flying through the air...

[iainjclark.livejournal.com]

I want to know why on earth Scottish monks were doing martial arts and flying through the air...

Because it's cool, I suspect.

[iainjclark.livejournal.com]

RTD really wants to do a full-on steampunk episode, doesn't he?

Yes.

Although the more I think of it, this was the closest to a Buffy episode the show has yet done. I mean: werewolf, martial arts, irreverant pop-cultureness, and everyone holing up in the library doing emergency research. Plus the resolution was a semi-mystical bit of technology. What more do you need?

I agree about the Doctor being our avatar (where arguably Rose was the audience's avatar in Season 1), but I'm still unconvinced that our heroes are being set up for a fall. I suspect that they are simply Being Themselves - which includes - quite intentionally on the part of the writer - being smug space tourists. They're presented as flawed individuals who are in it for the adventure, but have a strong sense of morality. The Steed and Mrs Peel of the space-time continuum.

[brixtonbrood.livejournal.com]

I think the heading for a fall thing is pretty much official - quotes from RTD to that effect are all over the fora, along, obviously, with a lot of speculation about how it will manifest itself.

[bohemiancoast.livejournal.com]

I thought this episode was deliberately and explicitly referencing Buffy; with the library research a specific homage (in particular the book illustration showing them what's going on, which is an unbelievably common Buffy trope).

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

Although the more I think of it, this was the closest to a Buffy episode the show has yet done.

Happily, not to the extent of having the werewolf look like an ugly, diseased monkey.

[nuttyxander.livejournal.com]

I thought it was pretty good. For once a Dr Who epsiode that looked as good as it thought it did. And next week doesn't half look like a slight re-use of some Dark Season style material.

Oh, and referencing the BBC ident with the kung fu people up in a glen in Scotland was a stroke of actual genius.

Dr Who always a lot better when set in the past, at least for RTD - he just doesn't really do the future properly.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

Oh, and referencing the BBC ident with the kung fu people up in a glen in Scotland was a stroke of actual genius.

Ah, it was a reference. I wasn't sure whether I'd actually seen an ident like that or not.

My download missed out about the last thirty seconds plus credits, so I have no idea what's coming next week. I'm guessing it's a contemporary episode, though, since it would never do to stay away from now for too long ...

[hfnuala.livejournal.com]

It's actually Tai Chi (http://www.five-winds.co.uk/news/bbcident.html) in the ident rather than kung fu.

But are we going to find out in future why and where a bunch of Scottish monks learn martial arts anyway?

Also, was the monstery supposed to have been there unchanged since whatever medieval year the shooting star came down? Because there have been one or two religious wars in the UK since then. And the penal laws.

[del-c.livejournal.com]

Dr Who always a lot better when set in the past, at least for RTD - he just doesn't really do the future properly.

Like he does the past properly? I thought the whole attempt at Victorian speech and mores was toe-curling.

[wishus.livejournal.com]

Ah - I really have no idea what went on, as David Tennant spoke in his own accent for a bit and wore glasses *swoon*.

Nah, I'm lying.

Totally with you on the steampunk idea.

I think I've said it before, and so has everyone else, but I think the doctor _is_ being set up for a fall. Hadn't twigged the monks in red reference to the BBC - but how ace!

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

General agrement, but surprised you've got nothing to say about the nice continuity conection between Rose, "Bad Wolf" and the werewolf. Was this just a throwaway retro-con attempt by RTD to justify the use of a more or less meaningless catchphrase in series 1, or is it Somthing More? if the Wolf is coming back as a descendant of Queen Vic in a later ep (there seems some support for that further down) then maybe..? (Since Rose's transmog end of last series seemed entirely nicked from Phoenix, it would be quite appropriate for it/her to make a comenack..)

[pikelet.livejournal.com]

I wish they hadn't mentioned that. It does just feel like retroactive justification at this point. Let's face it, the end of PotW made no sense whatsobleedin'ever, and RTD doesn't seem to twig that it'll never get better if you pick it.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

Thumbs up for Pauline Collins.

Really? I thought she was tremendously disappointing, and came very near to ruining my enjoyment of the episode (which, I agree, was middling at best). Victoria should have a presence, and at the same time she should be slightly off-putting to people with our sensibilities. Davies' attempt at the character struck me as an obvious attempt to create a 19th century Harriet Jones (especially given the parallels between the banishment scene and the last encounter with Harriet in "The Christmas Invasion") that undershot - due to weak writing, directing, and mostly acting - and landed somewhere south of a rather strict grade school teacher. I think I would have liked the episode a great deal better if there wasn't so much blatant Harriet-izing of Victoria - if we weren't so obviously meant to like and admire her. If Davies had taken the "Unquiet Dead" approach and made Victoria as prickly and unlikable as he made Dickens in that earlier episode, I might have responded to her like an actual person and not an obvious plot device (I'm not even going to talk about the blatant Torchwood setup).

Thumbs up for (what I'm assuming is deliberate) characterisation of the Doctor and Rose as getting complacent. The way this Doctor is fascinated with the strange and incredible, to the point of very nearly being oblivious that he's staring at a werewolf which will kill dozens of people if not stopped, was nicely handled.

In the case of the Doctor, I agree, but I didn't think this approach worked with Rose. She sees the werewolf devour the queen's guard, and is transfixed with horror - as she should be, and as is consistent with the character as we've come to know her. Seconds later, she's all "Werewolf! Squee!" - it didn't work for me.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

Predictably, I thought Dickens was a cartoon and that Victoria came much closer to being an actual person. :)

I gather I missed some Torchwood-related happening at the end of the episode; the copy I watched cut out after Victoria looked up at the sign giving the name of the estate.

As for Rose, I think the new Doctor is rubbing off on her. To my mind she's been noticeably more excitable since 'The Christmas Invasion'. Admittedly it's easier to accept the change in the Doctor since, after all, the Doctor himself has changed; I'm wondering whether we're not meant to take Rose's experience in 'The Parting of the Ways' as her own kind of regeneration.

[iainjclark.livejournal.com]

Victoria worked very well for me. She could have been undercut by Rose's attempts to lampoon her, but she retained her dignity and authority. As with Dickens the portrayal of her was exactly what any lay-person would expect, but I really felt that they humanised her to just the right degree. Her grief for her husband and musing on the afterlife made her real. I didn't feel like I was being manipulated into liking her - perhaps because I never questioned that she would be fundamentally likeable. And she did get to turn on the Doctor at the end.

Although she was obviously supposed to parallel Harriet Jones in the closing scene, she didn't otherwise remind me of her - Harriet Jones always felt quite ordinary, reaching for reserves that could fail her at any second. Victoria was far more confident and possessed of genuine steel - perhaps more like Harriet Jones many years down the line.

[palatinate.livejournal.com]

A new question, stepping back from the thread somewhat... how are our expectations changing given the success of season 1?

I don't think that we should be *so* grateful for Dr Who being back at all that we should just suspend all critical faculties but it does seem to me that we're getting more picky than we were this time last year. And I'm in two minds about this.

On the one hand, Dr Who is an SF-based family entertainment, and given the history etc I'm still delighted the revival has been as good as it is. And on some of the criticisms I'm thinking "it's just a bit of fun, and fans generally like some knowing in-jokes and refs - where's the beef?".

OTOH part of me says, at it's best the series has shown it can do good *SF*, with all the trimmings of plot, dialogue, acting et al (as in Dalek and the Empty Child). So why compromise? And indeed, when something's so close to being *great* rather than just *good*, why shouldn't we be a little greedy and want to see it stretch that last little bit?

[iainjclark.livejournal.com]

I don't think much has changed.

I think that many parts of S1, especially the pilot and the Aliens of London two-parter, rightly took a lot of criticism from some viewers for their farcical qualities. The same's true of episode 1 this year. This week's episode on the other hand is getting mostly praise. Personally I'm quite pleased that a group of Who-starved fans were able to stand back and be at least a little critical of the second season opener. Maybe expectations were a little too high, but on the other hand, New Earth was still fairly rubbish at times. :-)

I think the problem with expectations, if there is one, is the same as last year - Doctor Who has been a hit revival precisely because of the "family viewing" mantra which made S1 so unique, but it's hard not to pine for something just that little bit more adult. Maybe the criticism of the in-jokes stems partly from that feeling.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my expectations are that this season be at least as good as last season. I don't think that's too much to ask. On the topic of hopes, I'd be happy to see the generally good acting and character work matched with slightly more impressive plotting, and maybe a few less easy or technobabble-derived resolutions. If "New Earth" and "Tooth and Claw" are any indication, however, it might be a good idea not to hold my breath. That said, in the first season it wasn't until "Dalek" that I started thinking about the show as a good SF show instead of a good SF show for kids which adults might also enjoy, if they checked their cynicism and higher brain functions at the door. I'd be surprised to see the second season take quite so long to get in its stride, but I'm certainly not willing to write it off just yet.

Quite apart from my fannish interest, it's quite fascinating to me to observe how this second season turns out because Doctor Who is one of four shows that debuted last year with very strong and impressive first seasons, and of which I became an ardent fan. One by one and in varying degrees, these shows' sophomore seasons have disappointed me - by abandoning any pretense of plot or character development and devolving into a parody of itself (Lost); by neglecting the show's strengths and indulging in ill-conceived and simplistic 'political' storytelling for the sake of seeming relevant and topical (Battlestar Galactica); or by following a tremendous season with one that is sadly lacking in focus, intensity, and direction (Veronica Mars). I'll be very pleased to see Doctor Who break this streak, but add Deadwood and Carnivale to the list and you've still got a disturbing trend. Didn't the rule of thumb use to be that the first season was the show's chance to get its head together and the second season was where it really started to shine? What happened?