The Incredibles

[coalescent]

Tom requested a poll on the philosophy of The Incredibles. But, given that I'm me and not him, I'm going to preface his simple enquiry with a whole load of other quotes and questions.

Exhibit A:

The superhero was dreamt up by Nietzsche during the 1880s, and has been summoning humanity to transcend itself ever since. Does Mr Incredible's renunciation mean that the superman has finally despaired of the midget, puling race he was meant to lead onwards and upwards?

Exhibit B:

Is Dash, the supersonic third-grader forbidden from racing on the track team, a gifted child held back by the educational philosophy that "everybody is special"? Or is he an overprivileged elitist being forced to take into account the feelings of others?

Is his father, Mr. Incredible, who complains that the schools "keep inventing new ways to celebrate mediocrity," a visionary reformer committed to pushing children to excel? Or is he a reactionary in red tights who's been reading too much Nietzsche and Ayn Rand?

Is Syndrome, the geek villain trying to kill the superheroes, an angry Marxist determined to quash individuality? Or is his plan to give everyone artificial superpowers an uplifting version of "cooperative learning" in an "inclusion classroom"?

Exhibit C:

Who would have thought that an animated film would finally touch a nerve, putting egalitarians on the defensive? That is the achievement of Pixar Studio's new hit, The Incredibles, the story of a family of superheroes who struggle against the reign of mediocrity and finally break free to excel. Along the way it skewers the dumbing down of schools, the mantra that everyone is special, and the laws that give losers special status as victims.

Exhibit D:

The movie does come to some interesting philosophical conclusions, not least among them the way it advocates full-on Nietzschean ethics. The "Supers" -- literal Ubermensch -- are the strong, endowed with special gifts that place them beyond the range of normal men. The Supers also possess unimpeachably noble spirits, just as Nietzsche described. While competing amongst themselves to be the finest hero, they devote themselves and their gifts entirely to protecting the weak from themselves.

And, as mentioned in my earlier post, the Guardian has a roundup of comment here.

[Poll #399598]

Note that if you answer 'other' to question three, you should explain that in the comments, too. Myself, I'm undecided. So, convince me, one way or the other!

Comments

[andrewducker]

I don't think that he was being arrogant - except insofar that he was saying that without the powers that Mr Incredible had, the kid was going to cause more damage than good.

A point that was proved in the plot about 7 seconds later...

[immortalradical.livejournal.com]

Yes. Because the only way people can help others is if they're as great as Mr. Incredible. "I work alone - I work apart, above, and beyond your measly aspirations, mortal. Leave me be."

It's the very picture of having time for someone else, isn't it?

[andrewducker]

So, say I'm a firefighter, in the middle of fighting a blaze.

And a 7-year-old walks up and says "I want to help too! Look, I have a water pistol!"

According to what you just said, I should stop and make him feel good about helping. Not get him the hell out of there and back to his parents. Because he's not going to do anything except get in the way and possibly get himself killed.

[immortalradical.livejournal.com]

Well, no. Because a firefighter is not a superhero, and a superhero lives in a world in which super-powered figures can easily get god complexes unless they remember that their purpose is not just to save and protect but to remain part of society. Firefighters are by their very definition part of society - they have no choice. Superheroes do have that choice. When they choose or are forced to remove themselves from those they serve, Bad Things happen: Syndrome happens, or Megalopolis is left without a crucial line of defence.

The problem with much of the discussion of The Incredibles is that it doesn't realize that it plays with the standard devices of the superhero genre. As such, you can't map it completely to reality. Rather, what you have to do is form a theory that is consistent with those devices and then apply it to reality, changing as you go.

Which is why I have a problem with in all this 'dialogue with the genre' nonsense.

[andrewducker]

Your fake HTML tags don't show up....

And I recognise that it plays with the conventions of the genre (although not that much), but if you're going to apply it to real life (as people must, if it's going to have much emotional impact on them - and as it's obviously intended to be) then you have to take it at least partially at face value.

I agree that superheroes can get God complexes, but that doesn't mean that _includes_ remembering that normal people can't cope around them and may do stupid things in attempting to emulate them - and attempt to prevent harm by stopping them from doing so.

It was made very clear that this kid had become completely obsessed by Mr Incredible, and frankly at that point he needed to be given a sharp-shock to show him that this person isn't his friend - he's doing a job - much the same as when people become obsessed by celebrities. And as Mr Incredible was attempting to save lives at that point, it's not unreasonable to be a tad short and get on with...saving lives.

[immortalradical.livejournal.com]

But you suggest below that part of Syndrome's frustration is that his abilities are ignored, and Buddy does indeed seem to have nascent aptitude (how many kids make even shoddy rocket boots?). If pikelet is right - and I think he is - that the film is really about potential and the necessity of tapping it, then you must surely accept that Mr Incredible's role in Syndrome's origin story is that of 'denier' - he denies Buddy the chance to actualise the very potential he later complains is being ignored in his son.

If we (superheroes) are to avoid creating disaffected youths (Syndrome), then we must nurture the abilities that they have whilst simultaneously not encouraging them to believe they can be just like their hero.

[veggiesu.livejournal.com]

[in-joke mode on]
If we (superheroes)...

Good god, it's SURE THING!!!!!

[in-joke mode off]

[immortalradical.livejournal.com]

I shall be back shortly, Filthy Woman ... I have stuff to fuck up!

[andrewducker]

True, yes - he could have been more sympathetic about it and encouraged him to find his own path.

There wasn't enough in the film about finding your own path - it did seem kinda garbled in some respects there - all the stuff about not being allowed to use powers, then being told to seemed like it wanted to Say Something, but never pulled it off.