Coalescent

Hmm.

I'm not sure what this actually means.

I worry, for a start about phrases like: "The library has the potential to be the 'living room of the city' or a 'club for everyone'," says the report Not to mention the idea of "chill-out zones where young people can watch MTV"

Ultimately, however, that doesn't really matter; it's just fluff. What matters is the books. In my personal experience of public libraries, there are precious few books to be found as it is.

My local library now lends video games, CD's, DVD's, and even CD-ROM encyclopedia. To make room for all of this, the number of bookshelves has decreased considerably.

As a child I was a regular user of the city's public library (though I historically tending to stay away from the fiction section). Since the age of 11 I've had access to educational libraries - at my school, college, and two universities; so I hadn't been into the public library for a long time.

The fiction section is now very small (my Mother who still likes to borrow fiction, tells me they seldom buy new books), and the only book sections that have shown signs of expansion are "lifestyle" books (gardening, cooking, interior "design", etc) & "How to use a computer". Whilst the latter certainly has a place, one does have to wonder about the former...

Ultimately libraries should be about the provision of a free-at-the-point-of-delivery of a learning resource. Whilst I would certainly support the idea that those on low incomes should be able to have a quota of free internet access, and whilst a library is an ideal place to site that resource; it should not be the primary focus of libraries. As wonderful a tool as the internet is, it is nowhere near ready to replace books - and nor should it ever.

The problem however, boils down to the numbers at the bottom of the article. If you ignore mobile libraries, the numbers show that each library is getting an average of around £226,000 / year. Take out heating, lighting, staff & systems costs - and that's not going to leave much for the books.

From:

hawleygriffen.livejournal.com

While I do applaud the desire to make libraries more interesting places to visit, I also agree with some of what ajp is saying.
My local library has free internet/computer access, video rental, music & educational cd rental, areas to sit and read for children and adults, oh, and books, too.

Libraries are already on a tight budget.

I do thing some libraries look just awful and a flashy new building would attract more people to it. At the same time,they shouldn't be expected to do the job of museums. Although I quite like the idea of museums, libraries, exhibitions, and a cafe all in an interconnected building or set of buildings. A proper cultural centre. Oh, running away with myself here. Stop rambling, girl.

Libraries aren't the living rooms of the city, they're the libraries of the city, and whatever improvements are made to them should not forgot their original purpose - as somewhere people can go in, and choose a few books to borrow from a wide range of categories and authors, all for free.

From:

Ultimately, however, that doesn't really matter; it's just fluff. What matters is the books.

I disagree. What matters is all media. These days, there are more things that need to be in the public domain, and TV shows and CDs are some of those things. I like lots of books in one place, but then, I'm a book nut; libraries, I think, need to be more balanced.

(Plus, if we're talking about books on CD, that's a heck of a saving on space.)

Ultimately libraries should be about the provision of a free-at-the-point-of-delivery of a learning resource.

And again with the disagreement. Unless you take an extremely broad definition of 'learning' that includes 'many and varied forms of culture'.

But anyway, as others have pointed out, the main problem is funding.

From:

Ultimately, however, that doesn't really matter; it's just fluff. What matters is the books.

I disagree. What matters is all media. These days, there are more things that need to be in the public domain, and TV shows and CDs are some of those things. I like lots of books in one place, but then, I'm a book nut; libraries, I think, need to be more balanced.

I'm not sure that giving people free access to general music CD's is a necessary thing for libraries to be doing. There may well be a place for "classical" (in the modern generic sense) and perhaps the kinds of recordings it's impossible to find anywhere else; but there are enough radio stations (of may difference genres) that no-one needs to be without music.

I certainly don't think they should be in the business of hiring out video games & DVD's. It's a library, not a branch of "Blockbuster"...

(Plus, if we're talking about books on CD, that's a heck of a saving on space.)

Providing the facilities for people to use electronic reference materials is certainly a good thing; but I don't see that we need to let people borrow them to take home. I don't see how that adds anything.

Ultimately libraries should be about the provision of a free-at-the-point-of-delivery of a learning resource.

And again with the disagreement. Unless you take an extremely broad definition of 'learning' that includes 'many and varied forms of culture'.

Well actually I do. I don't really see the need for low-brow titillation such as "Mills & Boon" & other works of that ilk (but wouldn't actually oppose libraries stocking them - on the grounds of free speech); but other than that, libraries should exist to allow those who cannot afford to buy books, to be able to read them.

But anyway, as others have pointed out, the main problem is funding.

Sadly that is very true; and I worry that, by adding the "fluff" the article describes, the situation will only get worse - because those sorts of changes are not cheap to implement.

From:

I should just point out, that when I talk about DVD's (and by implication video tape) I'm taking about movies. There is, of course, a case to have various audio/visual materials for reference - such as documentaries, personal histories, archive film, etc.

There may even be a case for (again as reference materials) bona fide "classic" movies, for those wishing to study cinematography & the subjects loosely gathered under the heading "media studies".

I draw a very clear distinction between this, and the kinds of thing my local library is doing (hiring out movies, like a video store).

From:

addedentry.livejournal.com

I would like to watch these films, for curiosity and fun:

Fast Times At Ridgemont High
Citizen Kane
Zardoz
Welcome To Sarajevo
Le Salaire de la peur

You can't get them at Blockbuster, just as you can't buy out-of-print books at Books Etc.

From:

That's a very valid point; I can see no real reason why a library shouldn't do that. But neither do I know of any that do...

My objection, however, is with libraries becoming video rental stores (which despite providing another revenue stream), isn't something I believe that they should be doing. They can never compete with actual video rental stores; and I begrudge the space that is taken up, in a misguided attempt to make themselves "with it".

From:

snowking.livejournal.com

Ah, you've just reminded me. I must go join my local library. Well done, Niall.

From:

While I do agree libraries need to be updated, I think MTV and cafes should be strictly verboten. There is a danger mixing in that much commercial activity with a library, and the cafe model would make a library no different to most large bookstores now.

Perhaps a lighter approach would be permitting drinks and snacks, perhaps in designated eating areas (noise factor), and reducing all audio-visual to archive selections (as opposed to live feed).

Couches and what not for reading and conversing areas is a very good idea.

----

Incidentally, my undergraduate degree was part of an experimental college in a new building that was held up as a model for new libraries everywhere. The college was integrated with other university offices, integrated with a food hall on the main floor (with the campus bookstore at one end), and multiple levels of open stacks, with comfortable seating, vending machines, and disposal bins for food and drink. Likewise, there was self-checkout points for books, and an information booth with internet-enabled computer banks for public access.

Let's just say I saw everything that worked and didn't work with this sort of multifunctionality.

For a start, there were never enough 'quiet' rooms where one could do serious research or group discussions. So that left the majority in the open atrium areas that were entirely inappropriate for 'library-like' work. The noise was intense, especially with entire campus traffic flocking to the bookstore and lunching areas; plus things quickly got messy with crumbs and the like strewn all over the place. The book checkout machines rarely worked, and many books were quickly lost (students were bad about putting books back where they found them). The information booth, when manned, rarely had useful information ... and all the computer banks defaulted to porn.

The idea is good, and I'm convinced it can work, but appropriate functions need to be carefully matched, and there has to be a massively well-trained staff to run the whole shebang.

From:

despotliz.livejournal.com

The law faculty recently had a brand new building built, and it had a modern raised ceiling, with the idea that there would be some internal walls, but with an "open-plan" roof where there were no ceilings. The law faculty were apparently a little dubious about this, and worried that noise floating over from the canteen (and Starbucks franchise) might distrubed lectures and work in the library. The architect assured them this would not happen, so they went ahead and built it.

They were later proved right when no one could do any work in the library there, and are rumoured to be now sueing the architect. And you probably don't want the lawyers of a large and well-paid university law faculty after you. :)

This was all an amusing digression from my main point, which was to be a bit skeptical about the new style libraries. The local library near me does have a large computer room with internet access. But it also thinks a single shelf is a sufficient complement of boks on the entire of biology, and doesn't believe in a separate section for SF but in having it scattered through the rest of the fiction. So I'd really rather they spent more money on new books, than on trying to entice teens who might come in once for a few books, then leave. Selfish? Probably, and I'd rather they could afford to do both, but if it's between new books and comfy chairs, then I want things to read.

From:

Long long rows of shelves, floor to ceiling, with good lighting in the ceiling, perhaps with shelf lighting as well. Breaks along the continuous line of rows should accommodate relatively spacious circles of comfortable seating...chairs, padded poofs, beanbags, exercise bouncy balls (great to sit on!) - somesuch. Along the perimeter of the bookshelves should be large desks for quiet research.

A wider ring should be soundproofed rooms for meetings and noisy discussion...possibly a computer station or two as well. Perhaps in these rooms food and drink can be permitted, possibly with vendors or vending machines in close access.

Lastly, a seperate area should be devoted entirely to AV and archived film - even with earphones, the light can be distracting to readers.

Access to the whole complex should be tightly controlled through a main entrance, with a long row for checking books out - and multiple manned stations. Information would also be acquired from this main area.

A good additional effort would be broadly distributed computers throughout the rows of books, probably near those internal reading areas - tied just to the library database for quick finding of books.

Another floor can have an atrium overlook, if there is no sound conflict.

Plenty of windows to the outside, with suitable glazing and polarization are another vital feature.

----

Yup, boring design perhaps, but very functional, and with slight variations can be placed almost anywhere with minimum impact to existing architecture.

From:

snowking.livejournal.com

You forgot the Faraday cage. Or hunter-killer bots destroying noisy mobile phone users. Either's good.

Although personally speaking I think all libraries with computers should have wireless networking. But I think everything should have wireless these days.

From:

re: wireless - yeah, would be good, but I always worry about security with those. Granted, a library doesn't have much to secure, but cyber-vandalism is a distinct possibility.

The other dimension to this, at least in the US, is the US Patriot Act, which condones collating people's book lists and tracking 'suspicious' patterns. I remember quite a few libraries outright refused to do this (and certainly didn't have the means or staffing; these at least could change with a high-tech library).

From:

doesn't believe in a separate section for SF but in having it scattered through the rest of the fiction.

Well, that's arguably the way things should be anyway...

From:

the cafe model would make a library no different to most large bookstores now.

Why is this a bad thing? I know lots of people who love that about current bookstores. Heck, I love it. It's nice to be able to go in, pick up a book, get a mug of hot chocolate and sit and read for a couple of hours.

Sure, you'd need to keep it in a separate area; I'm not saying the whole library should be one big cafe. But I don't see a fundamental problem.

From:

I tend to think that activities and attitudes are greatly influenced by the infrastructure and architecture built around people. As a consequence, I think one has to be very careful about what commercial activities one introduces to what is fundamentally a non-commercial zone (besides late fees. ;-) ).

A bookstore is quite happy to have the smell of coffee wafting through the entire store, but that is a terrible distraction to someone who just wants to get some research done.

From:

itchyfidget.livejournal.com

The consensus seems to be that there isn't enough money ... I don't really see how libraries, who geta pittance, can possibly compete with HMV/Borders/Waterstones/etc who actually have money coming in from sales. It's a nice idea but I can't see it being widely taking up, for financial reasons ... pity, because it sounds as though local libraries are becoming stagnant/obsolete :-/

From:

greengolux.livejournal.com

The consensus seems to be that there isn't enough money ...

Yup, I think public libraries are chronically underfunded.

it sounds as though local libraries are becoming stagnant/obsolete

They do seem to be. It's hard to tell whether they're not being funded because they're underused, or not being used because they're poorly equipped due to underfunding. Either way, it's something of a downward spiral.

My dad says that when he was a kid everyone went to public libraries all the time. I know I borrowed the entire childrens' section of our local library when I was younger, but I think I was probably one of the aberrations in my generation. It was certainly never busy in there, even when they were running holiday play-schemes and stuff. When I went recently I did borrow the three books they had that I wanted to read, but overall was disappointed by the limited selection.

People are more likely to buy rather than borrow books these days, probably because they're cheaper than they used to be fifty years ago. Libraries are in demand for their free internet facilities, but not for their books, hence the change in priority. It's matching a change in the priorities of library users.

*grumble* government-money-going-on-military-pursuits-and-not-education/health-care/public-services *grumble*

From:

itchyfidget.livejournal.com

*grumble* government-money-going-on-military-pursuits-and-not-education/health-care/public-services *grumble*

*friends greengolux on the spot* :o)

From:

greengolux.livejournal.com

:-)

From:

People are more likely to buy rather than borrow books these days, probably because they're cheaper than they used to be fifty years ago.

They are?

Libraries are in demand for their free internet facilities, but not for their books, hence the change in priority.

There's a thought here about ebooks. I'm not sure what the thought is, exactly, but it's definitely there.

From:

greengolux.livejournal.com

People are more likely to buy rather than borrow books these days, probably because they're cheaper than they used to be fifty years ago.

They are?

I think so, yes. It's an economies of scale thing. There are now more books being published, there's more advanced printing/binding technology, so production costs have fallen and that's passed on to the consumer. It's easy now to produce cheap paperbacks, when fifty years ago the equivalent would have been a pulp magazine. (See the shift from magazines to books in the SF genre.)

The increased numbers of book being published also makes it harder for libraries to keep up. They've now got a mammoth task in terms of keeping themselves well stocked with fiction, while consumers can have their pick in book shops.

From:

Actually, I remember reading an article about this somewhere, the NYTimes probably. People generally are buying books more, than borrowing them. There's quite a national crisis in the US with dropping library use. Amazon.com and the like are quoted as seriously improving the convenience of distribution, if not decreasing the price (in real purchasing power parity terms) as well.

From:

kittynic

I used to go to the library a lot when I was younger. I've been known to take out my full complement of seven books and get more out on my Nana's library card too just so that I had enough books for the week.

Thing is since I went to college I lost my library card and I haven't been into the library since. Possibly because I tend to use my friends bookshelves as a library at the moment.

I'm thinking that almost anything that encourages people to pick up and read more books is a good thing. However, cafés aren't not. I'm very much a Giles when it comes to protecting books.

From: