More Angel S5 Cast News

[coalescent]

Here's an interview with Joss Whedon about Charisma Carpenter and Cordelia Chase. It makes for depressing reading, for me at least; an open admission that they lost their way with the character and never got it back. So now, instead of trying to fix it they're cutting their losses.

And thinking that they'd gone as far as they could go with Angel and Cordelia as a romance? No, fools, you had a chance to do an adult, grown-up relationship story about friends falling in love, and you bailed on it.

This is possibly the only time you'll hear me get worked up in support of a particular relationship. And also possibly the only time you'll hear anyone get worked up in support of this particular relationship.

Comments

[deccasanta.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad I fell out of love with this show a season and a half ago. Once this would have upset me so very much but now it's nothing other than expected.

Fools. *sigh*

Obviously we don't know what the story between ME and CC is but I can't help feeling sorry for Charisma. Especially as it could appear on the surface, and I'm *sure* that this is an untrue simplication of the situation, but it *could* appear to the layman that she lost her job because she got pregnant and the writers didn't know how to deal with it.

And as for C/A not being popular? Hmmm. There are hundreds of fan and fic sites (including some of the best fic writers in the Buffyverse) who might beg to differ. In fact if they wanted to know how to make C/A work they could have read some of Yahtzee/Dazzle and Rheanna/Immorata's stuff.

Again the *fools*.

[purpletigron.livejournal.com]

I think you mean, Angel S5?

[snowking.livejournal.com]

Yees, but when adult friends fall in love it's generally not stopped by one of them going EVIL. Cordelia got screwed when she came back from wherever the hell she went with Groo and was really no longer Cordelia. I am happy notCordy is out of my nerdporn show.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

when adult friends fall in love it's generally not stopped by one of them going EVIL.

Personally, I'm waiting for the story arc where Higgy takes your place with Christy.

Cordelia got screwed when she came back from wherever the hell she went with Groo and was really no longer Cordelia. I am happy notCordy is out of my nerdporn show.

Hopefully there'll be closure; Whedon explicitly says if she wants the work, she can have it.

To be honest, whilst they may have messed up the character, I think the writers have done pretty well by the actress - giving her time off last season, making her central to the story this season, and so on.

[pure speculation] I get a few vibes of 'one of the reasons we've lost the character somewhat is because CC kept us uncertain about her level of commitment for so long and there's a small amount of bitterness about that' from the interview. [/pure speculation]

[fba.livejournal.com]

TVGO: Were things left on good terms with Charisma?
Whedon: Yeah, but that's also stuff between us and not stuff that I would talk about in an interview.

That is ambigious at best isn't it? It really wouldn't surprise me if she had been trying to get out for a while - worried about type-casting and the like - but kept coming back becuase she couldn't find other work (unlike the main Buffy players, David and Alexis)......

[snowking.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm waiting for the story arc where Higgy takes your place with Christy.

Dude! Spoilers!

Yeah, I don't think ME have really acted unfairly here.

[immortalradical.livejournal.com]

This is pretty disappointing from a writer and writers for whom I have such respect. I've been a consistent critic of C/A for some time now, but it wasn't because I had something against the idea in principle - I kind of liked getting away from 'Buffy' - but because of the writing, the way it was presented. And it now seems clear that the reason the presentation was so weak was because the writers were being shy and hedging their bets. Disappointing.

I also feel bad for CC. Certainly, what they posted on her official site makes it sound as if she didn't want to leave - and she's said all season that she'll be back. For someone who has been so dedicated to this body of work, it's a sad thing to happen. And the notion that it's because there's nowhere else for the character to go is just ridiculous. What? Angel would be leaving if it wasn't his show, because he's been around for seven years, too? *sigh*

Having said all that, I *have* got what I wanted - Cordelia gone. But I only want that because they *did* lose their way, and it would simply take too much screentime to get it back. I'm glad she's not a regular, I guess ... but disappointed that it's because the writers lost their nerve. If Cordy was going to go, I would've liked it to have been with more dignity than this.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

And it now seems clear that the reason the presentation was so weak was because the writers were being shy and hedging their bets. Disappointing.

Well, that they were hedging their bets was clear from the last third of last season, and 'Tomorrow' in particular. They were doing just fine with Angel/Cordy through 'Couplet', as far as I'm concerned.

But like I said to Andrew, whilst I'm sure there is some failure on the writers' part here, I can't help wondering whether CC's ever-changing personal circumstances contributed a little. And given the explicit invite from Joss, if there's no Cordelia at all next season there'll only be one person responsible...

[deccasanta.livejournal.com]

And given the explicit invite from Joss, if there's no Cordelia at all next season there'll only be one person responsible...

Yes, I'm sure that if I was once a regular in a show, but the writers fucked up my character and gave me crapness to work with and then decided to cut my character out completely rather than fix their own mess, then I'd be only too happy to go running back for a guest role in a couple of episodes here and there.


If, of course, the exit of Cordy was just as much Charisma's decision then fair enough, but to be honest that's not the vibe I'm getting from either Charisma's recent (S4) interviews or this one with Joss.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

and then decided to cut my character out completely rather than fix their own mess

Um, that's the point, isn't it? Joss is saying she can come back if she wants to. Because, unlike you, I get the strong impression that at this point CC would rather be a mother.

Which is fair enough, really.

[deccasanta.livejournal.com]

You know exactky what I mean. You're misunderstanding to be vexing. :-) It's bit of a comedown from being a credited series regular to being asked to do a couple of eps to finish off your crappy arc.

If CC wants to be a full time mum, all power to her - but I haven't hear her state this yet. There is of course no earthly reason why she can't work *and* have a kid. DB manages it.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

You're misunderstanding to be vexing

Somebody has to do it. You're getting on far too well with all the menfolk; it's not natural.

Back on-topic: I know they had to change the original plan for the end of S4 (Cordy wakes up, slays Jasmine), but I don't know why. Was it just that CC gave birth later than expected?

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but I think this is the right thing to do. It may be hard on CC but it's good for the fans. we've tried Saint Cordy and Evil Cordy and neither worked. It's too late to get back to Shallow Bitchy Cordy - they need someone new for that slot (and kill off Fred while they're at it too:-) And everytime someone called her a champion I bit my tongue off.

[snowking.livejournal.com]

(and kill off Fred while they're at it too:-)

That happens and I start taking a sledgehammer to the fingers of the writers. :-)

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

Jeez, you realy must be desperate for female companionship :-)